Comparing the Foil Drive Assist MAX vs. Assist Slim

Foil Drive has gotten a bunch of the crew together to have a chat about the Gen 2 Foil Drive to help you decide whether the MAX or Slim is right for you. They have a varied range of riding styles and levels, so you may find an opinion that resonates with you.

Dom: I'm Dominic, and I've been using Foil Drive and the Gen 2 for over a year and the Assist and Assist Plus literally from the word "go". I weigh 82 kilos, and 85 with neoprene. I'm a little bit older than everybody else around the table.

Paul: I'm Paul Martin, founder and CEO of Foil Drive. I invented the Foil Drive, so I've ridden everything from day one. I'm 96 kilos and not proud of it.

Dom: But most of that is brain mass.

Trav: I'm Travis Murphy, 81 kilos, and I've been in water sports for the last 20 years. I've ridden everything from kites, SUP, foil, downwinding... the whole lot. I was there early on with the original Foil Drive, and now I'm on the Gen 2.

Dave: I'm Dave West and I'm 95 kilos. I am a wedding singer and an influencer like Dom. I've been on the Foil Assist Plus mainly with all my endeavors, and I've ridden the Gen 2 for probably about a week.

Jamie: I am Jamie Wise and I have been working with Foil Drive for quite a long time. We were the first to develop this pro system. I've been developing it and helping build prototypes. I do surf foiling, SUP downwinding and foiling. I'm 80 kilos.

Paul: Most people in this room can foil either really well or quite confidently, but that doesn't mean that we all haven't started from total ground zero, and I think that helps with our opinion to be able to say what would be good if you're in this category, right up to proper high-end foiling categories.

Gen 2 has just been launched, and we've got the Assist MAX and the Assist Slim. They're the two core product choices. The Assist MAX comes with the Sports nose cone and the Power nose cone, so you get the two different nose cone offerings.

The same goes for the Assist Slim, where you get the Performance nose cone and the Endurance nose cone. There are four different nose cones and four different batteries, and when you mix and match different batteries and different systems, you can have four different use cases.

The range wasn't developed by mistake; there's good reason to have four different batteries and four different nose cones, but two different systems. We're trying to give more riders more choice without the expense of having to have four different systems. It's a bit like changing wings. Dom, you've been riding the longest. What's your suggestion to someone who is new to foiling? What would you tell them to pick and why?

Dom: For someone new to foiling, without a shadow of a doubt it's got to be the MAX, every single time. It's not as clear-cut as people might think as to what the MAX and the Slim are capable of. I think a lot of people are going to look at the Slim and be overexcited that that's the one for the best performance for everything, but the MAX is equally capable of the highest level of performance. It can do a lot more than the Slim, but the Slim is better than the MAX in certain situations

.

Paul: If you're learning to foil, you're relying more on the motor and the power of the system to accelerate you straight into having fun, and you're never going to outperform the MAX. When I say outperform, I mean to be at a level like Jamie or Dave where you push the foils pretty hard and that extra kilo or two and the 20 mil reduction in height is genuinely noticeable and you can appreciate the difference. There are not that many people that I think should be worrying about that.

Trav, if you're a competent foiler and you're actually riding waves or winging or whatever, and you just couldn't make a decision, which would you choose?

Trav: If you were unsure of where to go, I would always go with the MAX, to be honest. You know it's going to do absolutely everything, and normally I would go with the biggest battery as well because it's the longest amount of run time. There's a little bit more weight, but we can get an hour surfing waves.

Paul: People can think that's not very long, but to put that into perspective, that is an hour of nonstop foiling, and most people's legs fatigue and give out before then. On the Assist Plus, we used to go out for 2 hours because we would come off foil and we would then idle back out to the lineup and wait for the next good wave. We don't wait for anything now; we peel off and zoom straight back out. If you were to use the MAX and the Power battery in the same way you're accustomed to riding the Plus, you'd be out there for 4 hours. You'd give out before the battery.

Dave: I think "which is the best wing" is the most common question we get. So often people underestimate the size of wing they should be on, and I think people might do that with their Foil Drive choice as well. Unless you are consistently able to link 5 to 10 waves, you should still go with the MAX. I would say the Slim is a very unique use case.

Paul: To get the benefit out of it, I think you have to be a caliber of rider that's already quite good. To really appreciate how you can link heaps of waves and get up on smaller foils and drop in on massive waves like Jamie does, that's where this really shines. But you could also be an average foiler and have an amazing time on this because you might be more than happy to use the boost, catch the wave, peel off, and pump as much as you can. If you come off foil, you're not going to just hit the gas and keep going, but just idle back out like Jamie does. How long do you get off the Slim?

Jamie: I can kick off, pump a bit, or drop down and paddle if I don't feel like pumping, then catch a wave and just keep doing that for over an hour. I've been out for a couple hours on the Endurance battery, no problem. I'm easy on my battery.

Dave: That's that hybrid approach. You're using it as a hybrid system.

Jamie: Yeah, I'm using it as an assist, just to catch the wave, and that's it.

Dom: Yes, the Slim is the better choice if all you want to do is what Jamie just described, to use it as an assist to get on foil, and then you are pumping via muscle power to get out or just paddling, but you can still do that with the MAX. With the Sport battery, it hardly affects your pumping at all. I can even pump with the Power battery, and with the extra weight you do have to put a little bit more effort in and you can't pump for quite as long, but you can still pump even small foils with the MAX. I just wanted to make sure that people are aware that it's not just restricted to the Slim.

Paul: I think we get super critical on the gear and ourselves too. To put things back in perspective, I used to ride a 118L 6ft SUP. That was my go-to because, for the Generation One, it wasn't easy to put on things much smaller than that. Now my go-to is anywhere from a 35 to 50L prone board, so the board's well under half the original size and volume, and I can tell you it's a lot easier to pump a small prone board with a MAX on it than it was to pump a SUP with nothing.

Jamie: The Slim with the Endurance battery is the same power output, if not more, than the Assist Plus with the medium battery. Technically, it's the same cell size, but it's a whole different form factor.

Dom: This a good time for us to each say when we would use the Slim and when we would choose to use the MAX. I would use the Slim Performance battery simply as an assist to get me up on foil, whether I'm prone surfing, wing foiling or sometimes for downwinding. Most of the time for downwinding I prefer the MAX because I want that safety net of extra run time, but there are occasions, depending on the distance and the conditions, where I would choose the Slim. Also, if all I want to do is pure flat water pumping and no continuous motoring around, then the Slim is amazing because it's got so much punch that I can get up with a tiny board. I can pump around until my legs go and then come down wherever I am and have a little rest. Then I know I can get back up for a lot of getups and chase wakes to thieve them and ride them for much further than I would normally dare to because I know that I can get back.

I still really like the Endurance battery because, for prone surfing, it gives me the option of doing some hybrid motoring around, so a mixture of pumping and hybrid motoring to link waves. My pump game isn't as good as Jamie's or Dave's, so although I like to pump to link waves, I know that the amount of waves that I can link by muscle power only is very limited. Using the Slim, I would definitely choose the Endurance battery so I can do a little bit of hybrid motoring to supplement my leg power.

Paul: I actually aspire to be able to do downwinders on the Slim. At the moment, I rely on the MAX because I know I'm going to get to the finish. I've never run out of battery and have never had an issue getting up, and I've always had fun. One day I want to be able to put the Slim on with the Performance because the Performance will get me up on those smaller foils and the smaller boards. I don't think I'd use the Endurance much because I'm heavy and I need the horsepower that the performance gives me to get up out of the water. I'm now always riding small boards and smaller wings, which means I have to put more emphasis on making the assist unit do more work, therefore I need the extra grunt. The only time I'd use the Endurance in the Slim was when I was trying to do that more traditional prone surfing.

Trav: With a Slim, I'd be running the Performance battery in nearly every discipline. I'd always use the Slim to stand up paddleboard downwinding because I can run small wing sizes and lose a lot of the weight and get away with it. Probably the other time I'd be running it is when I'm winging in really light winds, just to get that boost to get up. 90 percent of the time it's being stuck to the water on your board that's the hassle. And if anything goes wrong, you can motor back in. That's really the only time I'll use the Slim.

Paul: One thing I just remembered is that the Slim Performance is really good for wake foiling on a river because you could probably get up out of the water 15-20 times if you're efficient. We were foiling behind a big wake boat the other day, and we were on foil behind the boat for half an hour per time, and then you're done. Your legs are starting to get tired. It's awesome for wake thieving too because you can get up and then chase the boat. We were coming in with so much unused capacity that it wasn't a a problem if the boat didn't go back. What about you, Dave?

Dave: I'm happy as a prone surfer to use the wave to get up. I don't mind sitting in the water, waiting for a set, and then being on foil for however long, but mainly pumping. I really like that, so I reckon for me it'll end up being the Slim Performance battery if I'm using the Slim for prone. I'm expecting that I'll be using that as my downwinder as well.

Paul: But you're very good at downwind.

Dave: Yeah, I don't use the assist at all when I downwind. On my normal run, I'll do 12K. I'll motor out with boys, get up, and then I won't use any battery whatsoever. That's normal for me.

Paul: That's a crucial point because you're at that level of foiling where, once you're up, you don't need it many more times, so carrying all the extra capacity is just not necessary. But people have to get to that point.

Dave: But if it was dodgy conditions where it was windy and onshore waves, you'd want the MAX. Then you can go into the wind or do up and downwinders.

Jamie: It appears that Paul and I are complete opposites when it comes to this. We do like to surf foil just with the board, so I like the Endurance battery. It doesn't have a great amount of power in comparison to the 40 volt system, but it still has plenty to get into waves. So I use that one to try to put myself in the best part of the wave, and that gets me into every surf foiling wave you could ever dream of.

It really does cram the biggest amount of battery into such a slim little setup. You do get a little bit more weight, but I feel like you get better performance even with the weight of the Endurance and Slim, so that's my typical go-to for surf foiling. For downwinding, again, I don't need the power; I just need the run time to keep going as long as I like, and the only time I'll go for the performance battery is if we're doing a video where I've got to pull out all the stops and really get some fancy stuff going on.

Paul: Again, you're very good at everything you do in the water, so you make that battery and that system work very efficiently and you don't need all the power that thing actually produces. If you're less efficient at foiling or are running a really small board and wing, that offsets that.

Jamie: Something that we haven't really touched on yet is that it's amazing how much effort is required to paddle sideways to get to the right part of the wave, and you can just zip there quickly at just 30 percent throttle. So this gets me by at 80 kilos with a relatively small board and foil.

Dom: I think that's a really good point because your level is so good. You can read the conditions and you know exactly where to go to be able to take off in the pocket or wherever you want to be. I don't have that skill. I can't read the waves as well as you, so that's why, for prone surfing, I prefer the extra power from the Performance. I don't need to be in the pocket; I can be well away from the shoulder and still catch it super easy, and then I pump or let the wave catch up with me, and then I'm doing what I enjoy doing. I can do reasonably well riding the waves, but the hardest bit for me is getting on foil, and that makes it so easy.

Dave: I'm using the Performance to offset my weight, because Jamie and I are riding similar foils.

Paul: Again, I think one of the biggest caveats is how you choose to use it will make a big difference. We are pushing the boundaries of catching waves, where no one even normally even considers them a wave. I think that has to be fully understood: we are catching lumps and waiting for them to turn into waves because we've got so much speed and inertia. We're still enjoying them as sea swell before it even gets close to becoming a wave.

Dom: And on foils that are so much smaller than I could ever use without a system like this. I'm now able to use foils that are one, if not two, sizes smaller than I would be able to normally use.

Trav: I use the MAX pretty well in every condition. Last night we went out for a prone downwinder. It was 25 knots and I was on a 5'5" 50 L board with a Lift 120, which is 770 square cm, which I never thought I'd be able to get going in my life. I could get up on the flat and we did 12Ks and I still had 70 percent battery left. I just had a ball the whole time. If you're unsure about what unit to go with, it's the easiest just to go to the biggest. It does everything.

Dom: I don't want people to worry that the MAX is going to impede their performance. This would be my choice for sure if I was only able to have one. All of us are spoiled in being able to use either system whenever we want. Trav just used the Lift 120 for the first time prone downwinding yesterday, and it was the right choice, even though, having 70 percent of the battery left, he could clearly have used the Slim. But what the MAX does is it gives you that safety net if you're choosing a smaller foil or a different setup that you've never used before, and you're in any doubt whatsoever of having enough battery power to make it.

The MAX will give you that battery power that you need, and the impact on your performance between the two is negligible. Most people will not notice it. It's only when you get to Jamie's standard and above that you will notice the difference between the two and appreciate the difference. I am now completely addicted to spending time on foil nonstop. It really is addictive. So it doesn't matter what discipline it is; I will have fun on the MAX and there's no doubt that if I had to have just one, it would be the MAX.

For wing foiling, I would definitely use the Sport battery, but I will use the Power if it's the only one that's available to me and still have an awesome time.

For prone surfing, I don't think it impedes my performance when I'm actually surfing the wave. I can notice the difference when I'm pumping; the Slim is definitely easier to pump for long distances, but I can still get my fix of pumping and feel like I'm participating in all the parts of the sport that I really enjoy doing, and pumping is a part of that and I would never want to ride a system that doesn't let me do that.

When flat water pumping, and for wake foiling as well, it's absolutely superb. It excels at everything, and it's about that ability to pull the trigger whenever you need it to keep yourself going continuously whenever you need that little boost or just have massive safety margins. I've never done a downwinder or anything with the MAX where I've got off the water and thought, "Oh, I wish I hadn't used the MAX today." It's just brilliant every time.

Paul: I think I have very similar responses to everything you just said. We designed the Slim and the MAX to give people choice. We very nearly didn't make the Slim; we thought we'd just go with the MAX, but in doing more and more testing, I could see how much Jamie enjoyed pushing the boundaries with this, and I think Dave is going to do the same. It'll be interesting to get his feedback after another month of riding. But I've never been disappointed having used the MAX and agree that I can pump lightly better with the Slim, but my pumping technique is the problem, not the unit.

Dom: It's interesting that the MAX is the unit that will let you improve your pump game quicker because you'll be on foil for longer, and every time you tire or make a mistake, you pull the trigger and you're picking up your speed and then you can carry on pumping. The more you're on foil, the quicker you progress. As a teaching tool, the MAX is the ultimate.

Paul: Full confession mode... I do pump a lot less when I'm using the MAX because I know I don't have to. But as a father, this is a huge thing to me because I can take off my surf assist setup and run the long cable or the integrated mast, and then I've got a foil which the kids can just drive around.

We were doing an unboxing video of one of these kits yesterday with a setup I've never ridden. We put it in the water and it was absolutely nuking, and then we did a 15K downwinder. I wasn't that worried because I knew that if I had my wing in the wrong spot, or the track wasn't the right thing, or whatever, it wouldn't really matter because I could just offset all my mistakes with the motor.

Dave: On the days that I want a Foil Drive, there's a reason for it. Fatigue, or there's a huge crowd, or I just want to burn around and tow because the waves are so big, or it's a downwind run where there's a big paddle out. If it was my own money, I would buy the MAX every time because there are all these other factors that I'm trying to mitigate to make sure I can stay on foil for as long as possible.

Paul: It's going to be very interesting, after another month of heavy use, to see if you change that answer or not. There's no right or wrong answer.

Dave: If I walked into a shop today, it would be the MAX, and then if I could eventually buy them both, it would be the MAX first, then the Slim for me. I'm going to utilize the Slim; there's no doubt about that. We do these 8K downwind runs all the time, and of course I'm going to use the Slim. I go and I'm up, and then we get to the end and we're done. But on monster big runs, I'll definitely take the MAX, and a big wing.

Jamie: I have a warped reality because I've been head-down for so long building the Slim. I use the MAX every now and then, and it's so easy to forget that you have like kilowatts of power on, so you'd be worried about using every scrap of energy, and you get really efficient. I've gotten really good at managing power and using battery only when necessary, and that's how I can get away with using these smaller batteries for a lot of different tasks.

I almost ride the MAX as if I'm riding the Slim, so I don't know if I have good enough sense of it to be able to make a call here because I know I'm not using it to its full potential since I try to be so efficient. But although I would take the Slim every day of the week to do high performance stuff, when conditions aren't perfect and it's rolling in straight lines and then it just closes out for no reason so you can't get in the pocket and go down the line, the MAX chips you up out a kilometer offshore and you can ride a bump for ages and then peel off and do it again and again. So if I had to pick just one, I'd get the MAX if I had to pop my own money out because I can use my arms for almost everything I can use for Slim for. For downwind, the Slim is amazing because it gets you up and gets you going.

Dom: I would say that the MAX is going to be the sensible choice.

Dave: For most people, there's not enough downside to the MAX to give up the extra power.

Paul: The Slim can really reward you when you're at that level where you can really appreciate it. Hopefully this was helpful for people make a pre-purchase decision and make it a little easier. Have fun on the water- cheers!

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