Interview with Derek Sproul From Naish Kiteboarding

Pat: I'm Pat with MACkiteboarding, and I'm talking with Derek from Naish.

Derek: What's up, guys?

Pat: So Derek, you've been with Naish now for 10 years?

Derek: Yeah, I came on board in February 2014, so I'll be pushing 10 years now.

Pat: That's a long time with any company, really. I feel like very few people have stayed with one brand for that long, as far as the reps I know. There are a select few, but not a ton.

Derek: For sure for the reps, but I'm not even close to being the longest-tenured employee at Naish. Most of the people that I started with, at least in the office over there, were there well before me and are still there.

Pat: Okay, so there's pretty good retention there. So you grew up in Oregon. Did you grow up in Hood?

Derek: I grew up in Eugene, born and raised. My dad and his friends were all windsurfers, so during the summers we would either come up here to Hood River or go down to a little place called Floras Lake on the southern Oregon coast, and that's where I learned to windsurf. I started windsurfing basically as soon as I knew how to swim, and then I can vividly remember in '99 the first glimpses of kiteboarding coming around, and I had those first two kiteboarding magazines. Unfortunately, those are long gone now, but I remember seeing kiteboarding and really wanting to get into it. My dad wouldn't let me; he said I needed to learn how to jibe and water start first, and to his credit, while it looks sick, kiting was so dangerous in the early days. Eventually I found myself barely moving along on a 5.7 windsurf sail while my buddies Reed and Josh Brady were jumping over me and purposely hitting the sail to knock me into the water, so I decided that was it and I was learning how to kite. This was in 2007, and I learned on a Slingshot Fuel 5-line. I still do a bit of everything and a lot of winging now, though not so much windsurfing anymore. I still love to get on the water as much as possible, no matter what.

Pat: What was your introduction to the windsports industry, then? Were you working at a shop beforehand, or did you get into it with Naish right away?

Derek: Originally I started working for a windsurf shop that has unfortunately closed their doors pretty recently, called the Gorge Surf Shop. I started there when I was in college in the summer of 2008, and then I did a small stint in the ski industry. Then I found myself without a job and no obligations, and I decided I really wanted to move somewhere where it was warm, there was wind, and had waves. Maui fit the bill, so I booked a one-way ticket to Maui. Originally, I was just planning on being there just through the springtime. As my mom likes to say, "He planned it for six months and stayed six years." I ended up staying in Maui and moved there to go work for the Naish Maui Pro Center. I got started on the retail side of things, and then I've just sort of worked my way up the ladder from there, doing a whole lot of different jobs.

Pat: That's awesome. So what are your favorite spots in Maui? You've been there for six years, so you're more or less a local at this point, I'd say. Though some people on the island might beg to differ.

Derek: Yeah, there are some where if you're not born there, you're not from there, for sure, but that's fine. It's a great mix of people there, and even among the guys who were born and raised there, there are some super welcoming people. The community there is killer, especially in windsports. I feel like windsports in general are just a little bit more accepting compared to some other boardsports that have more of a hardcore image that they feel they need to keep up. With windsports, as long as you're not doing anything that would jeopardize launches, it's usually pretty accepting, for the most part. My specialty there is showing up to Kanaha after hours, and usually I'll have the place to myself. Kanaha is a huge beach and it's a big ocean, so you're able to get on the water, spread out, and find your space. In the waves it gets a little bit crowded, for sure, especially if you don't really know the rotation. At Lower Kanaha, it'll start at the peak and work its way down, then you work your way back out the channel, but sometimes you'll get visitors that are going straight out through where the wave breaks, and that sort of messes up the flow of things, but for the most part Kanaha stands alone as my favorite. It's typically got easy parking and easy launch. Lanes can be really good, and it's definitely a legendary spot, but usually one out of five times there it's going to either start or end in a kitemare because it's a really narrow beach that has funky wind and you've got to go over a dry reef. There are guys that have absolutely mastered it, but I've definitely left some skin and blood on that reef, for sure.

Pat: Being with Naish for 10 years, it seems like Naish is always doing something a little bit different or innovative. You've had stuff like the Sigma kites--I know those were a little bit before you were with them--and then the Octopus System for years and years. What are your thoughts on Naish's take on innovation in the industry?

Derek: I think it's a good thing. Up until recently, Naish was owned solely by Robbie himself. That opened the door for him to do what he wants and not have to answer to anybody, so it created a cool creative space for the designers to try new things and whatnot. Obviously, the Sigma was before me and I've actually never flown a Sigma kite, but to my understanding they worked, but it was just a little bit too radical for the industry. I personally miss the Octopus System. Anybody who has worked on one would strongly disagree, and I have worked on them, but what I really liked about that system is when you went to deflate your kite and roll it up, you didn't have to deal with your struts re-inflating because you had multiple points of exit for the air, so that was cool. In 2015 or 2016 when we came out with Quad-Tex, that was another innovation where we were ahead of the curve. We had a 4x4 ripstop that, to this day, I would stand it up against any canopy material on the market. So there's been some innovation there. I don't know if I'm gonna give us credit for foils, but we were early to the game there, too.

Pat: You guys definitely were earlier to the game making a foil in your lineup. I think Liquid Force probably was the first one to make a consumer-based foil.

Derek: Lift was around too, and a lot of companies were making kite foils at the time, but I think they were very few; probably only a handful of companies came out with a surf foil, initially. Granted, the surf foil that we originally launched is comparable to our Jet 1050 now, so that's a tiny surf foil, but we were still early to the foiling game for the all-around consumer, though maybe not so much for kiting.

Pat: Honestly, you guys were probably the first brand to really buy into the wing foiling thing. At the shop here, we all thought it was going to be a year and done phase, but you guys really seemed to buy into that program hard and run with it. You were one of the first brands to really invest heavily in that and actually look at it as more of a big picture thing than a year run and done.

Derek: Yeah, for sure. I remember Robbie saying it too. I think even we underestimated how big it would get. Robbie said there are going to be a handful of brands that are doing it in the first year, and then the market's going to get flooded with everybody making a wing, and we've definitely seen that. I think the sport is continuing to grow, and I think there's still a ton of room for innovation. It's progressing pretty rapidly, and I think access is a huge thing when you look at winging versus kiting. With kiting you need a fairly large beach in order to launch and land a kite, and winging is a far more efficient sport than what windsurfing has become. With some of the bigger wings that are really powerful, and especially foils too, you're able to get out on the water in a lot less wind. I think winging is going to continue to grow and hopefully expand into places that previously haven't been much on the windsports side of things.

Pat: Yeah, for sure. I definitely think it helps with the whole access point, as far as not needing the big beach. And frankly, it's a lot safer to learn for someone than kiting, as far as not needing to go through all the safety self-rescue stuff. Your self-rescue is you sit on your board and you paddle in. It's a lot more simplified, though foiling isn't an easy thing to learn.

Derek: Yeah, there's a bit of a steep learning curve to it for sure, but honestly, the hardest thing to deal with is the board and foil, if you don't want to disassemble your foil each time. But just remember not to forget your leashes and pump. I've done that more than a few times, where I got to the beach I'm like, "Oh shoot, I forgot a leash for my wing."

Pat: Yeah, I've definitely gone out without the board leash and done the frantic swim after it.

Derek: There are a couple guys here that will ride without leashes, and they've figured out a way to prop the wing up in front of them and use that to body drag to the board, but I'd still advocate for having leashes on both your board and wing.

Pat: So what are you riding this year, as far as your personal setup? What's your favorite gear in the Naish lineup this year?

Derek: On the wing side, I ride the Matador LT, for the most part. I think the low end power is really good on that wing, and it also flags out super nicely, so the Matador LT is pretty prime. The MK4 also does the job, and if I'm in a more busy area I'll probably pick up the MK4 because having the windows, whether or not you can really see through them, definitely has an effect where you're just more spatially aware, especially on those bigger size wings. If I have to go 6 meters or bigger, I'm probably gonna grab an MK4. Board-wise, I ride the Hover 60 Carbon Ultra, which is my go-to. I can sink-start it, I can knee-start it, I really like the length at 4'10", and it handles super nicely on foil. For foil, I run the 85cm 100 percent carbon mast paired with the either the 914 or 1040 high aspect front wing and a modified 220 stabilizer. I'll switch sometimes, depending on how windy it is. If it's really windy and the swell's decent size here in the Gorge, I'll run a 64cm fuse, just because it's a little bit more stable and you're able to get wider arcing carves. Then I like the 55cm for when it's a little bit lighter wind with smaller swell, because you're able to get really snappy, fun-size turns. I realize that sounds pretty nerdy on how the breakdown of foils is, but any day you can go and find some person who's got their foil perfectly wrapped in a neoprene sleeve and they'll talk about it right down to the bolts and why they're using titanium versus any other screws. Anyways, on the kite side I was a Slash rider for years, but unfortunately the Slash is no longer part of the Naish lineup so I've gone back to the Pivot. The Pivot launched in my second year with Naish, and from the beginning that kite has been a slam dunk. There's so much it does really well. I primarily prefer to kite in waves, so the Pivot was a great kite for me because it drifts really well. It still has a little bit more consistent pull than the Slash did, but it's won King of the Air twice, so it's a kite that really can do anything. I also like the Boxer, and it's worth giving a shout-out to that kite. I find the 11 meter is my go-to light wind wave kite because it flies and delivers power really well. I've really been liking our new Zero Bar system, which is a minimalist bar. It's just a thin carbon fiber tube running with a shackle on the end of it. For anybody who rides a rope slider, it works really well for surf because it's just like there's nothing in your hand at all.

Pat: That's another neat thing that Naish makes that no one else on the market really makes.

Derek: Yeah, I would say the Zero Bar is probably about as close to one of those custom foil bars as you're going to get. It still has a full safety system to it; it's got a quick release, trim and flagging line, whereas on some of those homemade systems it's a little bit harder to incorporate that. By all means, the people who are running those custom systems are good enough to run it as is, but I think the Zero Bar opens that as a more consumer-based bar that has what you would want in a minimalist bar, but hasn't done away with all the safety features. So that's been a cool bar, and then of course the i3 bar has the Click-in system. There are a few different loop systems that you can get for that, though we just haven't been able to get stock of those loops while we're still getting caught up with the supply chain issues.

Pat: We'll jump to the elephant in the room: the acquisition by Kubus. How's that shaking things up at HQ for you guys? Is it more or less business as usual?

Derek: We're excited. To preface this, Kubus has been working with Naish for probably over 20 years now. They handle distribution throughout nearly all of Europe: Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy... so they handle a lot of the major markets in Europe and they're probably the biggest distributor of Naish products in the world. So they actually had quite a fair amount of input in the product side of things, and now they're probably going to have even more, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think it'll open the door to get more consumer feedback and implementation into our products moving forward. They're a really solid organization if you look up what they do, and the building that they've moved into is super nice. They've been on the path for revitalizing Pro Limit too. Pro Limit's another brand that's been around for a long time, and they've come in and are breathing life into it. One thing we're really excited about is having a soft goods and accessories brand to go with our stuff. In the past we haven't had that sort of a partnership, where that's pretty common with a lot of kite brands these days and they usually have an accompanying soft goods brand that isn't necessarily branded under the same label. So I've got some sample wetsuits and harnesses that should be here tomorrow, and then I'm headed over to Maui to go test some harnesses, though probably not so much the wetsuits over there. But I'm excited about the acquisition. We had the new owners here last week and they're excited too, so I think overall it'll be a really good thing. It's like a shot of Red Bull more than anything. It's not like we were on life support by any means, but it's something that we're all really excited about.

Pat: Yeah, if you've done the same thing for ever and ever, it's nice to get a fresh hand and a fresh set of eyes on it.

Derek: Exactly. It's not a restart or anything like that, but it's just a fresh direction, so we're excited, they're excited, and I think all heads are in the same place as far as what the goal is. I think this is going to open the door to getting back on track and achieving our goals year in and year out.

Pat: Nice. Going back to innovation, where do you see that going with Naish next, as far as wing foil development? Do you see more change in wings in the industry, or do you think foils are going to continue to be more where you can see bigger changes moving forward? Or do you think it's going to be less changes and more small tweaks and refinements?

Derek: I think it's kind of like kiting in 2007 or so, where it didn't hit a plateau in development, but there was almost a cut-off date where you shouldn't buy anything older than this year. I'm not sure if we're quite there yet with winging, and hopefully not since I think there's still a lot of innovation to be done as far as making wings as efficient as possible by playing around with different shapes and structures. Some brands have a pretty extreme dihedral, and others are a little bit more flattened out, so I think there are a number of things to still innovate with. I think handles is going to be another big one, and windows; hopefully we can see some more innovation in window design and material. I think materials is going to be another really big one. We see brands that are doing wings in some premium materials that are three times as expensive. For the guys that can afford it, great, but I think for the guys that are on the fence, it could be a little bit more difficult to justify those kinds of purchases. I did do a trip back to Maui in November and got to test out some of the new product lines, and I'm pretty excited for what we have coming forward. So I think on the foil side of things there's a ton still happening there. I think high aspect wings have been one thing that's sort of come in and taken things by storm, and whether people need to be on those vs. more mid-aspect ratio wings. We're working on different planforms, designing wings that are blending efficiency, pumpability, and maneuverability too. I really like the 914 because it glides really well, it's fast, and turns really well, whereas the 1040 is going to pump a little bit better, it's not quite as fast, but it can still turn. In the wing design aspect, I think there's still a ton that can be done there as well, so there's exciting stuff in the pipeline. That's not to discredit what we already have out on the market today; I have tons of fun on what I'm riding now, so it's a good time to be in windsports right now.

Pat: I think this is probably the most development the industry's seen in the last 10 years. You get to the point where you can only push stuff so far; the exact materials coming in change slightly with kiting, but it's nice to see that whole development process and all the designers and everybody in the industry have to start back from square one and restart everything.

Derek: Yeah, and even on the kite side of things, in the past year big air kiting has just gone through the roof. The guys who were winning King of the Air two years ago are barely even making it through qualifying rounds now. All these kids are coming through and throwing insane maneuvers, and I think that's adding to the innovation on the kite side of things. I know our team has been super pumped up on seeing where we can improve the Pivot and designing it to be able to compete with some of these specialty big air kites.

Pat: Yeah, you have seen a lot of brands go towards very specific big air kites.

Derek: It seemed like kiting almost hit a plateau when the Pivot came out. It was the kite that we needed; sort of the "one kite to rule them all". And then we've been improving materials, adjusting the bridles, and making small improvements but keeping the flying characteristics the same. I think we're seeing another revitalization in the aspect where now guys are pushing it so hard in kiting that we're having to go back and look at how can we make the kites match what these guys want to do. So across the board, I think there's a lot of innovation through and through that's making some good steps forward.

Pat: I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what the lineup looks like for next year. I think people think of Naish as more of a niche brand for some reason; it seems to have fallen into that category a little bit even though you guys are a huge brand in the industry. It's like it's a quirky brand, almost.

Derek: Well, Robbie came into it from an athlete's side. I think he had 24 World Championships to his name, or probably more, so name recognition is huge. Robbie's arguably one of the biggest names, and then with this Kubus merger, we have the brand name recognition, so how do we better capitalize on that? We're excited about the acquisition, and I think this is going to light some fires and let us start capitalizing more on the brand name with some really good stuff coming down the pipeline.

Pat: Awesome. Thanks Derek. We'll wrap it up here. I'm definitely going to be calling you back to see how things are going, what's up, what's new.

Derek: For sure. We'll have a lot more news coming down the pipeline later this year.

Pat: Awesome. Well, have fun in Maui, dude, and I will catch up with you soon.

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